So, about this Sonic Lost Worlds game...

[Skynet]

You don't have to be old enough to remember 2D Sonic to know that 3D Sonic is crap...

I wasn't born when the original 3 Star Wars movies came out so episodes 1 - 3 are better.

[not just souLLy now]

I have nothing to contribute to this thread at all other than agreeing with everything Boney has said above, which is a more eloquent version of what I'd have said, had I had the energy to write a proper post

[Matisfaction]

I really should pick up Rayman Legends, especially as it's pretty cheap already..

[cube_b3]

I just want you (Cork) to acknowledge a demographic that exists and is strong.

I don't care about demographics. I'm just judging individual games on whether I like them or not.

Sonic 06 is an absolutely wretched piece of shit and the general consensus on aggregate sites supports this. I'm not going to accept it's good just because some people happen to like it.

Hold on, Hold... lol.

I am not defending 06. That game is garbage - I manage to enjoy the gameplay and somehow manage to enjoy the cut scenes as well, but that is probably just me and not a strong demographic.

I was referring to the 3D Platformer demographic. I agree that it is flawed, and since the "wow" factor is gone the flaws are even more irksome.
What I want Sonic Team to do is build on the gameplay of Sonic Adventure which is what 06 was doing. I want them to fix the bugs and the camera angles and continue evolving it.

I do not consider the Hedgehog Engine (Unleashed/Colors/Generation) an evolution of Adventure design. It is an evolution of Sonic Advance/Sonic Rush series.

Sonic Lost World is doing a few good things, focusing on Boss Fights just as much as the main game. But if those bosses will be like the shitty bosses in Unleashed on Colors, I don't care.

Now I acknowledge this boss fight, is probably not the best one from Sonic 06 and it is riddled with bugs and atrocious camera angles.
But at least I have freedom in it.

This one is effectively on autoplay, you can't stop Sonic. You just guide his directions, boost and press the jump button.
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The problem with Sonic games is that to really have an intuitive boss fight, or platforming section. They feel it isn't possible in 3D and they switch the game to side scrolling mode. That is fun, sure. But, come on! Can't we have fun in 3D if it is done right?

_______________________________

What I have been trying to say from the start about gameplay is that it wasn't really a problem in the design, it was in the execution.

[Specially Cork]

Of course you can have a 3D Sonic if it's done right. But the best they ever managed was their first attempt with Sonic Adventure, and that was hardly AAA gold.

My problem isn't with 3D sonic as a concept. it's with Sega. They've never nailed it, and believing that they ever will is a leap of faith I just can't make.

Their 2D attempts are better, and I'd rather they put their effort into those than make Sonic Adventure 3.

[cube_b3]

Why do you find the original better than the sequel?

It introduced a new camera bug because you could not run backwards, but running forward I didn't have any problem with Sonic/Shadow.
Tails/Robotnik are definitely better than E-102. I know some people complained that those Mechs were slower than E-102 but I found them better.
Knuckles/Rouge were harder now, but that was because the stages were massive in contrast to the original.

Dis you miss conventional platforming with Amy or Fishing with Big?

[Matisfaction]

You killed this thread about two pages ago, why do you continue to bump it up?

[Specially Cork]

Why do you find the original better than the sequel?

It introduced a new camera bug because you could not run backwards, but running forward I didn't have any problem with Sonic/Shadow.
Tails/Robotnik are definitely better than E-102. I know some people complained that those Mechs were slower than E-102 but I found them better.
Knuckles/Rouge were harder now, but that was because the stages were massive in contrast to the original.

Dis you miss conventional platforming with Amy or Fishing with Big?

Fairly simple really.

I hate every other character's gameplay gimmick in the SA games.

SA1 let me play through as Sonic and completely ignore everything else.

SA2 didn't.

[|darc|]

Why do you find the original better than the sequel?

It introduced a new camera bug because you could not run backwards, but running forward I didn't have any problem with Sonic/Shadow.
Tails/Robotnik are definitely better than E-102. I know some people complained that those Mechs were slower than E-102 but I found them better.
Knuckles/Rouge were harder now, but that was because the stages were massive in contrast to the original.

Dis you miss conventional platforming with Amy or Fishing with Big?

Fairly simple really.

I hate every other character's gameplay gimmick in the SA games.

SA1 let me play through as Sonic and completely ignore everything else.

SA2 didn't.

Amen.

[cube_b3]

Well you guys should have loved the last 2 Sonic games and Lost World will be an absolute delight for you.

While I may not be a fan of the treasure hunting sequences. I actually enjoy switching characters and doing things, I prefer that over Sonic morphing with Wisps or turning into a Werehog. Sonic Unleashed would've been so much cooler had Knuckles replaced the Werehog.

[DaMadFiddler]

Here's a much longer and more detailed Lost World video:

It may not be quite as fast as some of the recent Sonic games, but this feels like a much more natural (and functional) evolution of the original formula. Sort of splitting the difference between the unfinished Sonic X-Treme and Mario Galaxy. It also feels much more like something that stemmed from the original Genesis games: a physics-based platformer with lots of alternative ways of getting through each level. And it doesn't even resort to going 2D

[Specially Cork]

Could be good, but not something I'm going to buy a Wii U for.

I'll see how the 3DS version turns out.

[pixel]

I know exactly when Sonic went downhill: Sonic 3D Blast. My friend and I were so excited when the demo popped up on Sega Channel. Five minutes into the demo, I knew the game was doomed. The gameplay was mediocre, graphics were stodgy and the ideas were bizarre.

There were really good storylines between the original Mega Drive/Genesis games and the Archie Comics series that involve all sorts of kickass characters, chaos emeralds and awesome lore.

Once Sonic Adventure 1 came out, the fork was prompted pushed into the charred corpse of the Sonic series. We were dazzled by that damn whale and the amazing 3D graphics, but that game is extremely shallow.

There is no great, mystical secret behind the downfall of Sonic. There was no dubious plot to ruin the series, but just the boneheaded decisions of a company that made huge, critical errors from 1996 to today.

[cube_b3]

I See.

+ The gameplay does seem much more free and player controlled then the Hedgehog Engine games.
+ Enemies from old games reappearing is always a good thing
+ Shaking up the combat is a great idea. I finally learned why Sonic was uncurling and kicking enemies.
+ Platforming in 3D is always more fun than 2D (For me!)
+ It looks like the boost will almost never be used


- Camera seems to be completely automatic. I liked having a little control over the camera. In SA1 we could even go in 1st person mode to look around.
- Level Design is very abstract in contrast to even the Genesis games.
- How is Sonic collecting rings magnetically without the magnetic shield?
- The music is bad, very cliche and unoriginal.
- I don't like "Red Star" rings, cause if they have a star in the middle they aren't rings. I prefer SA style emblems.
- - Feel the same way about the 10 count rings, I rather have item boxes.

[DaMadFiddler]

+ Platforming in 3D is always more fun than 2D (For me!)

Doesn't matter whether it's 2D or 3D; what matters is whether it's good. And so far, this is the first Sonic game that looks like it's actually good at being fully 3D.

- Camera seems to be completely automatic. I liked having a little control over the camera. In SA1 we could even go in 1st person mode to look around.

Are you really saying it's BAD that a game doesn't have a camera like the one in Sonic Adventure?

Level Design is very abstract in contrast to even the Genesis games.

Sonic levels have always been abstract, just like Mario levels.

The music is bad, very cliche and unoriginal.

...as opposed to the buttrock and horrible wannabe-pop in the SA series?

I don't like "Red Star" rings, cause if they have a star in the middle they aren't rings. I prefer SA style emblems.
- - Feel the same way about the 10 count rings, I rather have item boxes.

Meh. Don't really see how this matters one way or the other.

[cube_b3]

Well I actually do like Crush 40 quite a bit.
That said, I also liked the original MD tunes A LOOOT!!!
I even liked a bunch of tracks from Colors

I hated the music in Unleashed... and this really reminds me of that.
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Yes, they have always been a little abstract, otherwise we wouldn't have loops, springs, and all the fun stuff that we love. But they were never completely abstract. These levels are 100% abstract other than maybe having a Casino, Jungle or Ice theme they are completely out of this world.

Offcourse now I will point to my favorite levels like Emerald Cost, City Escape, Radical Highway etc and they were abstract but clearly inspired from real world locations and felt like they were part of a world. The entire levels are basically platforms in the air and not really part of anything. Am I effectively communicating my point of view?
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As for the star rings and ring boxes, I suppose it isn't really a criticism.

[DaMadFiddler]

Gah... suckered in by the Sonic Cycle again, it looks like:

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/10/18/sonic ... -d6947e79/

If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like the main issue has to do with the level design.

There's also this choice quote from IGN:

Lost World is a strange sort of design feat where no one thing is broken, but everywhere you look there’s a subtle, but significant tuning decision that conspires to throw a monkeywrench in the works.

Unfortunate.

[Specially Cork]

5 from Gamespot. The controls look absolutely awful in their video review.

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/sonic-l ... 0-6415478/

Shame. I didn't expect much! but this game is getting a hammering. The whole thing looks rushed.

[DaMadFiddler]

http://kotaku.com/sonic-lost-world-the- ... 1448002806

Meanwhile, Kotaku says pretty much the same thing as everyone else--that the overall design concept is good, but that it's ruined by nasty level design. However, they claim the 3DS version is significantly better than the Wii U version.

[cube_b3]

I am genuinely sad for Iizuka, he got an extra year in development and still couldn't release a quality product.

It appears a prominent complaint is gameplay... sad. I quickly dismissed the gameplay mechanic in my earlier posts and it turns out I was right. Somehow 2D sections still fare well. Why can't they get 3D right? 3D should be more fan than just running left to right!

What's even sad is that Iizuka career started off as a beta tester for Sonic 2. His first job was to find bugs and clunky execution.

Edit: Oddly enough both reviews barely talk about the boss battles. I don't think Gamespot even mentioned them.
They were suppose to be an integral part of the gameplay and I was excited about them.

Anyway now that this game is shit, how about we get Sega to give us a proper gameplay patch for Sonic Generations and more maps for the current levels (basically by more I mean restore the original design like Dimps did in the 3DS version). And maybe give us a few more stages, hell throw in a stage from Lost World while they are at it.