Starting Mods - How to?

999 · Post by **999** » Tue May 07, 2002 3:54 am

Finally burned a CD with QDC and some of my fav mods and maps I use on my PocketPC. I didn't burn a coaster perse, but I do however still have a problem, namely I can't start my mods because I can't get into multiplayer.

That said, how exactly to you start a mod? I can't add any bots to my matches without setting up some kind of game, otherwise the max clients is set to 1. Without any network code, old Quake just won't let me start a multiplayer game

Should I edit the Quake.rc file perhaps? I don't want to make another working coaster if I don't have to

The mod of choice right now is Omnicron Bots. Yea yea, it's not frik, but fricken A, I like Obots so sue me.

If I can just get max clients to 4 I'm a happy camper. Aside from this one setback, I'm pleased to say everything worked as expected, including my binds and such despite missing skins on the default armor and weapons

H E L P

999 · Post by **999** » Tue May 07, 2002 4:47 am

Egads, sorry for the post, I forgot how archaic Quake was and got a little ahead of myself.

I whipped out the old SegaNet keyboard and had a go at setting maxplayers via the console and all was good again. Laff, my maps look like such sh1t when they're not on a 3.5x4 inch PocketPC screen

I will say this however, they run hella smooth, even better than a 206mhz StronArm iPAQ

I'd have to say I'm not going any lower than 30-40fps.

Once I work out the configs to start a mod from the get go without a keyboard, I'll put up a DJ image for anyone interested. It's not distributing any of the id files, and I used a similar method to haxing custom maps which have been posted throughout this board. If this is a bad idea, I can at the least post my raw files for a make-your-own cd.

TheDumbAss · Post by **TheDumbAss** » Tue May 07, 2002 6:22 am

Since you'd have to have the full version (or atleast shareware) on the cdr for it to work we cant really support images. : /

If a true TC was out that use no Id software owned sounds, models, maps, etc... then I would feel comfortable supporting an image of it though. Openquake got close to a total replacement... Hack and Slash is a true TC but it needs some optimizations to the controls before it works really well on dreamcast.

I have been thinking about selfboot/mod install kits for awhile... but I havent been able to find a command line pak editor (dos or win32 console) that is up to the task.

As for the commands you want... heres what I'd recommend for setting up a botmatch disc.

First find this in Quake.rc
// start demos if not allready running a server
startdemos demo1 demo2 demo3

and remove it.

Put this at the end of Quake.rc or your config.cfg

map fake // to insure the server isnt running a map
maxplayers 4 // higher if you want... but 4 is the defult max

then

deathmatch 1
teamplay 0

(or whatever applys to your mod)

map xxx // xxx should be replaced with the first map you want to load.

Of course you can change/add things as you see fit.

Since you have a DC keyboard things are much simpler on you.
To spawn a bot you just use the keyboard to enter to command.
Same to remove bots or change deathmatch types or turn on teamplay.

Since quakedc automaticly binds the controller regardless of whats in the config...
the good way to setup the controls to anything else is to program it into a mod.
Better still is to use a controller friendly menu in the mod to select the differant options you may need.
Another way is to simply edit the defult.cfg and go to the options menu and reset to defult every time you load up the game.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong or forgetting anything... I should have been in bed a good while ago.

Oh and what was this about missing skins on the armor and weapons?
Is it constant? What do they look like?
Is that on some levels or all levels?
What mod are you useing them with?

Not saying that missing textures dont happen... just curious why those : /
I pretty much only have it happen on dead player models and gibs. But GLquake has a problem with dead bot bodies...

I have noticed in mods with high ram useage... skins do tend to be missing much more often. For the worst working example I can give is Ultimate Quad Capture ran for me when I tested it... but it just ran. ALL models were solid white... and all map textures (except water and sky) were black. Movement was slow and choppy... but it did work.

999 · Post by **999** » Tue May 07, 2002 6:56 am

Thanks, I burned my last cd just as I read your settings for no demo on load. It's not much of a problem since my pak doesnt have any of the models or maps the demo needs, but still, I do like to run a clean ship so I'll have to go back and get to that.

Regarding building the keybinds and such into the mod. Nay

Here's what I've come up with as a simple solution to get right into the game and frag.

Firstly, my quake.rc is set to goto menu_options as it loads. From there you goto load defaults, whereby it will load a map to start on, and you have two choices, right keypad to begin DM mode, or down keypad to begin RocketArena mode. Pressing either key launches their respective cfg file which sets the game mode, rules and binds. I have set DUP and DLEFT to cycling back and forth between weapons, and DRIGHT and DDOWN to adding and removing a bot. If you decide to try a different mode, just go back to the options, load defaults and use a key to reselect the game type. Not as fancy shmancy as Raptors and the like, but it works

I have included 4 custom maps which all run tits on the DC with a frag limit of 10 and mapcycle. The maps are intended for fast and furious action with little room for anything else, like purdy graphics and textures. Speaking of which, the ones which blank out come back at odd times and remain that way for the duration of the game. I have some pretty large sound samples for the RA mode (MK announcer voice) as well as each model is wearing their own custom skin (i love that part about obots, each are different in looks and performance, which IMHO offers a little more "live" feel than FRIK does albeit not nearly as polished as FRIK) so those might be the likely culprits for missing textures. Regardless, they do come back, and nixing the sounds and skins are just not worth it IMO

I can supply my maps, cfgs, rc and progs file to anyone interested I reckon. It doesn't contain any id subject matter. At pocketmatrix, we had a clearer understanding with Id and are able to share pretty much anything quake related so long as it doesn't have a pop.lmp file in it. I assumed the same rules applied here.

Thanks again for the reply.

Quick question. Do I really have to burn this in dos in order to use my own ip.bin file? The kits out there don't have /nohack enabled, and thus I lose my custom image on boot.

TheDumbAss · Post by **TheDumbAss** » Tue May 07, 2002 8:03 am

heh... I did forget these didnt I?

timelimit x // x being the number of minutes for the match
fraglimit x // x being the number of frags needed to win

and a few others might be useful to somepeople and for some mods...

Your altering the quake.rc to load the options menu is kinda original...
Sounds like it should work well

I'd forgotten about Omicron being a multiskin bot... I remembered thatsome of the bots behaved a bit defferant. I wouldnt put you down much for omi... Its better than Reaper which was popular around here for a long time. But... frikbot can do multi skin and have adjustments for indivitualty personality if someone wants to take a couple hours to put them in.
Also there is a new bot. ( Glacierbot http://quake.thepitnetwork.com/icedagger/ )
The last version I had a chance to test ran very well on dreamcast. It had personalitys and supported loading of external bot files (create your own custom bot

) But it requires a keyboard

The cause of the missing skins could well be the large playermodel size (do to skins) and all the rocketarena announcer voices.

If you want to put together a package for dc go right ahead

Can give it its own thread and I can have someone post some news here on DCemu even.

But... as far as Id owned content is concerned...
Within reason is acceptable... like reskinned models and such in mods. But our communication with Id has been limited so we arent sure just how much they would let us distribute. Because of QuakeDC's somewhat shaky legal standing its best that we dont push things by distributing too much of thier content. (its legal standing is explained to the best of my ability in the FAQ and readme.txt)

My question about pop.lmp though...
What about mods where pop.lmp is the ONLY id owned thing left? (like hack and slash) The engine could be altered for pc and mac to accept a replacement pop.lmp... As could the ppc quake engine. But in the case of quakedc we have no choice then to use the original.

999 · Post by **999** » Tue May 07, 2002 3:38 pm

We at PocketMatrix used to modify our quake.rc files since PocketQuake's inception. Most of the users were Casio (MIPS) people, and that machine couldn't accept command lines. As a result we learned how to get mods running by simple trial and error like anyone else here did.

The pop.lmp file is unfortunately id's. You can make your own pop.lmp, but that is simply circumventing their copyright when you get right down to it. I'm sure you've heard it before, if you want to distro the game as a fullversion, it's got to be a TC, and in that case, you'd already have the know-how to simply set the flag for non-shareware version without the aide of pop.lmp. Dan East who ported PocketQuake was always tempted to set that flag to ON, as it was just that simple.

Something I noticed about quake.rc editing on the DC is you cannot have it set any maps, i.e. "map fake." What this does is changes the game mode prematurely, and you end up stuck on the options menu without the ability to load any files. The only way I can exemplify this is by starting a single player game and then trying to enter multiplayer console commands. Similarly, you recieve the error stating Quake has no clue what you're telling it to do with either file not found, or command unrecognized. That said, I blew 3 cds (finally ran into a problem) trying to figure that one out. For my purposes, the only thing in my rc file is, listen, maxplayers, and menu_options. The game rules and modes are handled by the different cfgs bound to the keypad at the begining.

One last thing I've got to do before I reckon my files are available to anyone interested is change the bind for the start button. Can you tell me the bind for this key? I'm guessing "DC_START"

I'd like to bind that to menu_options, as there's no real need to goto any of the other screens IMHO.

Nothin Fancy, but here's a shot of one of my tiny 1v1 maps

Never drops below 30fps.

FrikaC · Post by **FrikaC** » Tue May 07, 2002 9:19 pm

Just a small correction, the name of the project that is near a 'complete tc' is really OpenQuartz, *not* Open Quake - which in reality is a (now stagnant) Quake engine news site. Open Quartz will one day replace all the content of Quake - but until that day arrives anyone with a few spare hours can make a DM-only mod with the OpenQuartz material and make an image of that, as all Quartz is missing is maps (for which you can download some user made DM maps - though they may contain id software copyrighted textures, I don't think they can really complain there) and single player monsters.
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TheDumbAss · Post by **TheDumbAss** » Thu May 09, 2002 1:50 am

Heh... yeah I was really tired when I typed that yesterday. I got OpenQuake and Open Quartz mixed up.

What I was talking about with the replacement pop.lmp is that a tc like well... hack n slash could change their pop.lmp to be hns.lmp (or something else...) then have alter the check for the pop.lmp and of its contents to match the hns.lmp and its contents. They could make the engine spacific to that mod by using their own check like this.

Unless I missed it... the license to the engine source doesnt include a 'do not remove/replace the pop.lmp' clause in it. So this should be able to be done w/o any problems... and allow for TCs to be played by people who dont own quake.

Problem is that engines that dont have the source avalible to be altered (quakedc) wouldnt be able to run that mod without the full version of quake or at least the pop.lmp. I would think in that special case... it should be acceptable to distribute the pop.lmp

hack and slash is already being distributed with a 'custom' engine. They havent took out or replaced the check... but they could. Currently it is distributed by its authors with the original pop.lmp included and runs without needing any (other) files from the original quake paks. I dont see why its a problem really... but I also see that it might be.

Heh... I dont know what the bind for the start button is. Nobody has ever said. I've never tried to figure it out.
I guess you do have a very good point though... For DM mods all you'd ever need is the options menu. Single player mods need it for saving, loading and starting a new game still though.

FrikaC · Post by **FrikaC** » Thu May 09, 2002 9:54 pm

dcquake could be hexedited however to replace the pop.lmp image data / filename.

TheDumbAss · Post by **TheDumbAss** » Fri May 10, 2002 1:36 am

/me scratches his chin and raises an eyebrow...
really? hmm...

999 · Post by **999** » Fri May 10, 2002 2:42 am

Then you'd effectively be "cracking" it if you weren't releasing it as a TC.

I remember the author of pocketquake quoting emails from id regarding these very topics you have brought up, and each time, they replied with general answer of NO, you cannot distribute it as a full version under any conditions unless it is spread as a total conversion containing no id copyrighted material. I wonder what their attitude is like now? I reckon if QuakeDC were opensource, it'd have a little better response from the id camp.

Doesn't JoyEmu circumvent the pop.lmp requirement? I guess I shouldn't ask because sometimes it's better to leave things left unspoken, and I think this is one of those "sometimes."

BTW-
Had some time to sit down on my maps and go thru the map cycle. I noticed non default textures aren't to nice on the DC, well, at least mine, so I had to nix a level from my pak, bringing it to 3, DeathBox, Devise and Stoned Colder (RA2 not wwf). I'll post the files as soon as I can find some place to host it. I wish this board accepted attachments ^^

TheDumbAss · Post by **TheDumbAss** » Fri May 10, 2002 3:29 am

Yeah... that would be cracking...
But it would be a way for us to legally distribute selfbooting images of any true TCs that may come out.
(hey frik... will the RPG mod be a true TC?)

No joymenu doesnt get around the pop.lmp check... It would take hacking to the engine to get around the check. If it could be done in QC it would have been long ago

And yes... SOME custom textures dont show propperly for various (unknown) reasons.
I know that the main texture on my old 'test' level fails to show up at all... (is transparent actually) You can see right through walls textured in it... right on out into the void. The walls are still there, stopping you, rockets, and monsters... you just cant see them. (acts like a clip brush basicly)

I'd be interested in seeing that 4th map on DC for myself anyway...
My test map is the only one I've ever seen texture problems on... (that werent ram related issues like I'd mentioned with UQC)

The bad texture in my test level has a lot of fullbright in it... I'm curious if thats the cause.
I dont know : /
I kinda doubt it since there are fullbrights here and there in Id's textures... but they dont have any problems.

Oh yeah... and I wish the forum had uploads too

I have looked into possibly offering space for quakedc developers to host their mods, screenshots, tutorials, etc on quakedev.dcemulation.org but because I still have had no help from a certain dcemu webmaster I have no idea how to work my MySQL to setup it up or many other things I've wanted to do. He has the info I need... he is who gave me the site.

mankrip · Post by **mankrip** » Wed May 15, 2002 2:38 am

The start button is hard coded in the engine... The proof is that the "unbindall" command doesn't unbind the start button. And there's no "bind DC_START togglemenu" in the engine, like the commands of the other buttons.

mankrip · Post by **mankrip** » Wed May 15, 2002 2:41 am

The start button is hard coded in the engine... The proof is that the "unbindall" command doesn't unbind the start button. And there's no "bind DC_START togglemenu" in the engine, like the commands of the other buttons.

FrikaC · Post by **FrikaC** » Wed May 15, 2002 4:23 am

No RPG won't be a 'true TC'....but it could be with a little effort, I'll have to run it by Ren...err Tyne. The big problem is 90% of the sounds / models I've added to the mod infringe somebody or else's copyright. (much of it Blizzard's). Normally mods can get away with it, but a true standalone game might not.