Bush's speech a open discussion.

[SuperMegatron]

I am guessing you all saw the speech. I think he is trying to stick a band aid on a bullet wound. Deploying 6,000 troops to the border and not using them to stop illegals is crazy. What are they there for? It seems to me he deployed the guard simply to have a reason to go on tv and promote the same old guest worker program that americans have been against for the past 6 years. I just dont get it. Why not deploy 20,000 troops to the border and secure it. I just cant see why no politicians will give americans what they want.Ever single opinion poll shows americans want to crack down on illegals and he just isnt doing it.

P.S. I know I am supposed to have a link if I find a transcript or a link to the speech I will post it.

[not just souLLy now]

The fact that you describe human beings as 'illegals' doesn't warm me to your side of the argument.

[Covar]

The fact that you describe human beings as 'illegals' doesn't warm me to your side of the argument.

they are. there is a way to enter this country legally. illegal aliens don't go through this process, hence they are illegal aliens.

[AgentGreen]

The fact that you describe human beings as 'illegals' doesn't warm me to your side of the argument.

Agreed. Bigotry shows through in full color.

I like how you pull the "polls show Americans want this-and-that" B.S. out of your ass. There's never an unbiased poll (either through those running the poll or those taking it). I'm an American and I don't have a bigoted short-sighted issue with immigration.

[Roofus]

I agree that we need a way to get the people legal. I don't know about the details of Bush's plan but I think a guest worker program would be ideal. That way, they could work here legally and have the same basic rights all workers here have and still live in Mexico.


There's no reason to "crack down" on people who want to work. Why not let them?

[mankrip]

I prefer to be poor in my own country than to be poor in a place where I don't even know the language.

[Matt]

A lot of them send the money back to familes.

I love the irony in the Americans being against immgrants, its quite funny in a way

[GratefulDead]

It sounds like the most redneck term to hear you guys refer to illegal immigrants as "illegals". lmao

At first I thought it was pretty ironic and comical, but seeing how far everyone's taken things now is just shameful. I'm glad I haven't been paying attention to the news lately.

[SuperMegatron]

Bigotry shows through in full color.

So bigotry is wanting my country's border patrolled? or is it wanting its laws enforced ?, Maybe bigotry is being tired of seeing social service money meant for american citizens going to foreigners. You can't expect americans to embrace 11 million people who walked across a border then demanded citizenship and rights. We have laws and a process in place to grant citizenship. If you break those laws you should be punished not rewarded.

[Hawq]

Carefull there, if I say that about the same kind of thing happening here everyone jumps on me & not in the 'good way' either

[not just souLLy now]

Bigotry shows through in full color.

So bigotry is wanting my country's border patrolled? or is it wanting its laws enforced ?, Maybe bigotry is being tired of seeing social service money meant for american citizens going to foreigners. You can't expect americans to embrace 11 million people who walked across a border then demanded citizenship and rights. We have laws and a process in place to grant citizenship. If you break those laws you should be punished not rewarded.

Because your work ethic is keeping your America afloat yeah? Still living at home on your parents buck by the way?

Shut the fuck up.

You want somebody filling your car with gas, you want someone serving you McDonalds, you want someone to do all the shit jobs you don't want to do and you want to pay them next to nothing to do it. If there are indeed high unemployment rates in your state (which I have no doubt you are a part of) then perhaps you need to look at the people in your Government rather than those at the bottom of the food chain, struggling to get by. Moron.

[az_bont]

If 11 million Mexicans can stroll over the border and find themselves jobs, then the unemployed within America simply aren't trying very hard - and the same goes for every other country whose population seeks to make villians out of the most vulnerable within their society doing all the crap work that the natives feel they are above, but still feel the need to bitch about foreigners doing it for them.

[SuperMegatron]

Because your work ethic is keeping your America afloat yeah? Still living at home on your parents buck by the way?

Shut the fudge up.

You want somebody filling your car with gas, you want someone serving you McDonalds, you want someone to do all the crap jobs you don't want to do and you want to pay them next to nothing to do it. If there are indeed high unemployment rates in your state (which I have no doubt you are a part of) then perhaps you need to look at the people in your Government rather than those at the bottom of the food chain, struggling to get by. Moron.

First off why be disrespectful in your argument. Second to address the parents thing I been working for a while now, but even if I wasnt working that has no bearing on 11 million illegals in this country. Third whats your point? If you believe the illegals should stay here make a case for it. All your saying is that they do the crappy jobs no one is disputing this.So here is the question how do we cover the costs of educating, providing health care, and other social services to these people? You as a citizen of the UK dont cover these costs.Americans do. They cover the schooling costs with their taxes and the hospital costs with higher medical bills.

[SuperMegatron]

If 11 million Mexicans can stroll over the border and find themselves jobs, then the unemployed within America simply aren't trying very hard.

Americans demand that employers actually pay them the federal minimum wage. The minimum wage is around 5.75 in america so when mexicans come here and work for 3-6 a hour and they dont need social security taxes,work mans comp, or any liability insurance they undercut the american worker

[Roofus]

If 11 million Mexicans can stroll over the border and find themselves jobs, then the unemployed within America simply aren't trying very hard.

Americans demand that employers actually pay them the federal minimum wage. The minimum wage is around 5.75 in america so when mexicans come here and work for 3-6 a hour and they dont need social security taxes,work mans comp, or any liability insurance they undercut the american worker

How? You can't get a 16-hour shift picking lettuce? Poor you.

[Orange_Ribbon]

If 11 million Mexicans can stroll over the border and find themselves jobs, then the unemployed within America simply aren't trying very hard.

Americans demand that employers actually pay them the federal minimum wage. The minimum wage is around 5.75 in america so when mexicans come here and work for 3-6 a hour and they dont need social security taxes,work mans comp, or any liability insurance they undercut the american worker

How about reporting the employer so he gets fined, or goes to jail. Instead of people that are trying to help their families.

[ghostparty]

I think that we need a way to legalize all them but one good thing (not saying it outweighs the bad) is that by keeping themselves "illegal" they have to keep clean with the law. If they break it then they have literally NO rights since they are not citizens and they can be tried as terrorists.

[Zealous zerotype]

If 11 million Mexicans can stroll over the border and find themselves jobs, then the unemployed within America simply aren't trying very hard.

Americans demand that employers actually pay them the federal minimum wage. The minimum wage is around 5.75 in america so when mexicans come here and work for 3-6 a hour and they dont need social security taxes,work mans comp, or any liability insurance they undercut the american worker

Also for those who do use fake SS numbers they are helping the economy because they recieve no benefits from it. Unless of course they have children.

[ghostparty]

Ever single opinion poll shows americans want to crack down on illegals and he just isnt doing it.

IT'S TRUE! JUST CHECK IHATEMEXICANS.COM!!!

[Lartrak]

If 11 million Mexicans can stroll over the border and find themselves jobs, then the unemployed within America simply aren't trying very hard.

Americans demand that employers actually pay them the federal minimum wage. The minimum wage is around 5.75 in america so when mexicans come here and work for 3-6 a hour and they dont need social security taxes,work mans comp, or any liability insurance they undercut the american worker

AFAIK, federal minimum is $5.15. A number of states have higher state minimum wages though. That's another thing that needs to change IMO, but a different topic for discussion I guess.

they are. there is a way to enter this country legally. illegal aliens don't go through this process, hence they are illegal aliens.

When they're referred to as "illegals", it sounds like they're being deliberately dehumanized to make it easier to dismiss them. I would guess in many cases that the term illegals is used simply for brevity, but the way many people say it in person makes it clear it can also be used as a term of hate.

I like how you pull the "polls show Americans want this-and-that" B.S. out of your ass. There's never an unbiased poll (either through those running the poll or those taking it). I'm an American and I don't have a bigoted short-sighted issue with immigration.

I'd say megatron is right. Every poll I have seen on the issue does say Americans want to crack down on illegals - usually a majority of about 60-65%. Instead of just attacking the source, find a poll that says different.



Anyways, personally it seems to me that kicking 11 million people out of America is just not going to happen. So I do tend to agree that something should be done so that they have the same protections and requirements as legal citizens when it comes to work. This would, of course, mean they would have to be paid minimum wage, which would more-or-less eliminate the incentive to hire illegals over legals.

As far as the border goes... I really don't know what to do about that.

edit to add: http://www.pollingreport.com/immigration.htm

A collection of polls on immigration.