how come no recent games have "pushed the limits"?

spiroth10 · Post by **spiroth10** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:37 pm

I can remember back in late 99' and 00' when people were expecting to see amazing things in the next gen consoles...

but, sure, they had power... but that power hasnt even been put to it's maximum potential; and soon we have a new round up of more powerful consoles than these coming.

this disappoints me. it shows that the companies that once favored quality now dont care, as long as they can line their pockets with gold. All previous systems had games that showed us a systems maximum power... the current ones dont.

point is -- why the hell do we need so much more power if we havent even used what we've got? I mean, the PS2 hd got little use, it's usb drives were barely used (removed in the thin one, I think), and NONE of it's technical limits have been nearly breached. why make new systems when the games will look just the same as one's we already have? if they dont push these limits, theyre not pushing even bigger ones!

I guess this little rant wont do much to change things -- I can never go back to the old days where game makers actually put quality in their work.
I understand that pushing todays standards would be hard -- but we're talking about people who know what they do well -- they CAN do it.

so tell me: why release the new round of consoles this year -- I say our current ones need another 5 years before anyone will take the initiative to
use what we already have.

Clessy · Post by **Clessy** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:00 pm

Cause its simply easier to make something look 10 times beter using much more powerfull hardware then it is to get 100% of hardware.
Ex: 100% of this generetion could be like 30% of next.

DeAthWaGer · Post by **DeAthWaGer** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:03 pm

true, but does this explain why DC looked good right off the bat and still does?

btw, spiroth10, I friggin' LOVE the banner.

Clessy · Post by **Clessy** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:05 pm

Cause DC is extremly easy to program for and has good documentation.

Zealous zerotype · Post by **Zealous zerotype** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:11 pm

Yea lets pull figures out of our asses...

Caboose · Post by **Caboose** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:15 pm

I love the banner too. Actually, halo 2 for the Xbox pushed the limits so hard that there are very noticable graphical glitches in the game. Just watch a cinematic and you will know what I mean. also, some things look beatiful from far away but when yo go close up it looks like it was drawn on paint. This doesnt happen all of the time though, the graphics are beatiful but they pushed it too much. maybe if the Xbox had an ATI Card...

Caboose · Post by **Caboose** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:16 pm

PS, how do you guys like my sig?

Clessy · Post by **Clessy** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:17 pm

Halo 2 pushes the limits of Xbox? Yet is still looks like shit? Yeah I think thats what we call bad programing.

curt_grymala · Post by **curt_grymala** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:22 pm

Caboose wrote:PS, how do you guys like my sig?

Well, besides the fact that you're circumventing the censor, and will probably get in trouble for it, I guess it's okay.

Caboose · Post by **Caboose** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:30 pm

oh yeah.... the reason I made it a pic was because with all of the stuff I wanted to put in it picture was over 300 characters. i didnt mean to circumvent the rules... sorry, but i just find it so funny.

SinTex · Post by **SinTex** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:42 pm

From what i read Halo 2 was partly designed for Xbox 2 & then just stripped down.

From Microsoft stand point they knew Sony would release a new Console soon, obviously did not want them having a new more powerful machine, thus they just dump more money into another more powerful console( Xbox 2 ) & stuff the Xbox maybe.

It has already been anounced that all Xbox 2 games will be in High Definition, so yes they will look shit loads better. As long as you have HDTV that supports the games. The games will still run on normal TV's as well.

Ex-Cyber · Post by **Ex-Cyber** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:55 pm

First and foremost, right around the time PSX/Saturn/N64 came out, the industry was pushing hard toward optimizing the development process to save on developer man-hours and enhance portability (which saves a lot of money) instead of saving CPU and VRAM cycles. This led to the widespread adoption of high-level SDKs for consoles, which ate into the practice of low-level coding. Technical excellence is still around in some of the smaller developers and more independent teams, but it has shifted somewhat to a more artistically inclined aesthetic than a pixel-pushing/cycle-bumming one. A good example of this would be Viewtiful Joe - it doesn't push 70 million polygons, but it creates an interesting aesthetic effect in an uncommonly refined and elegant way. In other words, the shift has been from trying to do more polys/sprites/etc to trying to do something new and interesting with the freedom granted by more powerful hardware.

why make new systems when the games will look just the same as one's we already have? if they dont push these limits, theyre not pushing even bigger ones!

They will. When hardware makes a generational leap, it enables whole new approaches to old problems, or makes old approaches that just sucked up too much processing power suddenly become feasible. That doesn't mean that the shovelware manufacturers won't just churn out slightly shinier crap, but for the little slice of the pie owned by development houses who want to genuinely do something interesting and fun, it opens up a lot of options that simply couldn't exist before.

Caboose · Post by **Caboose** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:01 pm

I think that it would be cool to have an upgradable console, much like a computer. but the again it would be hell for people trying to make a warranty for it.
PS: i edited my sig, I hope its better now.

curt_grymala · Post by **curt_grymala** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:11 pm

Caboose wrote:I think that it would be cool to have an upgradable console, much like a computer. but the again it would be hell for people trying to make a warranty for it.

I guess the Genesis/Megadrive could sort of count. You could add the 32X and the SegaCD components on to it to upgrade it.

PS: i edited my sig, I hope its better now.

Much better. Thanks.

Caboose · Post by **Caboose** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:17 pm

Yay! I wont get in trouble!

Also about uprgrading parts:
You could buy the parts at the store, like more ram, bigger hard drive and stuff like that. but like I say, it would be really hard to make a warranty if you are allowed to upgrade the console by opening it. the could probably cover the Motherboard with metal shielding and screws, then put several stickers and other things so that people cant access it. They could also cut holes in that metal shielding where the ram and other stuff could go.

Clessy · Post by **Clessy** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:34 pm

Yeah i'm sure devolopers and gamers alike would love that

Because you know you gotta love having games designed to work on consoles but wait no! Now they only work on consoles with max ram and blank this. So now your paying about $300 for a system that you might have to upgrade with $200 worth of parts if not more per year. Yeah sounds like a fucking awsome plan.

MKE · Post by **MKE** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:41 pm

Clessy wrote:Yeah i'm sure devolopers and gamers alike would love that
Because you know you gotta love having games designed to work on consoles but wait no! Now they only work on consoles with max ram and blank this. So now your paying about $300 for a system that you might have to upgrade with $200 worth of parts if not more per year. Yeah sounds like a fudging awsome plan.

calm down clessy, i mean thats all your technically doing anyway?

you buy a console now, play the games that come out now, then if a few years pay that much money again to play the new games.

probably the only good thing about that would be that there is no backwards compatibility problems....but thats what makes a pc a pc and a console a console.

i dont see a need for a jump to a new platform. im enjoying all of them that are out now, and am still pleased with the graphical capabilities of the xbox and gc. and now that more developers are moving to the xbox, if m$ just drops support for the xbox they'ed screw themselves over bigtime.

Vlad Tepes · Post by **Vlad Tepes** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 9:55 pm

I think there have been a few games that have pushed the limits of the current consoles.If Doom 3 for Xbox turns out as well as the screenshots hint at, you could be looking at a limit-pushing game right there...as far as graphics go, anyway. GT4 on PS2 is the same way. I haven't played much of it, but MGS3 seems to be an extrordinarily pretty game for PS2. On the other hand, I don't think there have been any games on GC that have pushed it. The only game on GC that I think comes close to pushing the limits is F-Zero GX. Personaly, I think the upcoming release of the next generation consoles is premature. I could rant on and on about that, but I'll save it for a future thread

megaman8x · Post by **megaman8x** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:00 pm

what proof that you have that no games have pushed console to their limits, I know doom3 for xbox since they did extra research and found hidden commands and the proccessor just to try to get it running smoothly, a lot of games push the ps2 to its limits as for gamecube im not sure...

bottom line is just because it says it can do it doesnt mean it can do it very well, (like display maximum polygon rate but it will wont run very fast)

Post by **pixel** » Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:04 pm

Take a look at Riddick: Butcher Bay. While there might not be a lot of characters on screen, I do feel IMO it features the best graphics in terms of the game and the potential of the hardware. Doom III is looking to steal that title.

Also, upgradable consoles suck.